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Thread: Paze gets exposed

  1. #46
    productions :) Paze's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    "Louder = flatter frequencies"

    *dead*

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  2. #47
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by paze View Post
    wtf? In A Sense Yes, But In Another Sense. Louder = Flatter Frequencies
    I Put Myself In The Shows Of The Target Audience So If Its Metal - Which Im Doing A Lot Of Its Loud When Im Mixing It. If Its Pop Or Anything Quite Light Or Acoustic I Keep It Reasonabley Low In The Headphones
    Paze, What The Hell Man?

    A Cornerstone In Mixing Is Referencing At Different Levels From Different Monitors. You Want The Most Accurate Representation Of Your Music At All Levels.
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  3. #48
    We off That Kris Cain's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by Paze View Post
    if your headphones have a boosted low end, which is LOUDER than another headphone's low end... it doesnt mean your headphones are flatter.

    "flat" is a term used to describe the frequency of the whole spectrum of human hearing, not just a certain frequency level. As shown in the chart YOU posted. Your using the chart out of context.

    So with that said... if i owned headphones with a louder lo end, and a louder high end than another set... mine are not flatter... they are quite the opposite. They are "hyped"... or "colored"...

    which is pretty much the case for all things. Being as the only flat frequency response is either a continuous sine wave, or a silence.

    Quote Originally Posted by remix magazine
    After comparing the Q40 with two sets I know better — the venerable Sony MDR-V600 ($129) and the less known but very worthy Equation Audio RP-21 ($149) — on a selection of favorite tunes, I concluded that the Q40 phones, like many monitors, have a bit of their own sound; they color tracks with a bit of a bass boost and an overall punchiness that gives music a bit of a “rounder” sound than that of the MDR-V600, which has more of a classic, transparent sound. The R-21 landed somewhere in between, with a bass-y yet also transparent sound.
    that's exactly what i thought it sounded like you were describing. They are hyped in the low end region.
    Welcome to reality.

  4. #49
    The Stew Opie M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Notice how the chart flattens out a 80dB? Good job. Guess what dB level you're supposed to check levels at... oh... wait for it...













    80dB!

    Ever heard 80dB? It's not very loud. You're probably mixing at about 95dB or higher which is about 5 times as loud.

    But word... follow your chart there and mix at 120dB genius.

    BTW... just for anyone that actually cares. sound isn't flatter at higher dBs. This chart is showing that the human ear hears frequencies more INTENSELY at higher volumes. Intensity is apparent loudness or perceived loudness. So the louder something is, your hears think it's that much louder. After the threshold of about 85dB your ears begin to over-emphasize the volume of the frequencies you're hearing. This gives you a false sense of track volume. The benefit to this phenomenon is that we hear sound in more detail at higher volumes. Therefore it's best to mix FX at volumes higher than 85dB to hear more precise detail. But you should never mix at above 96dB, because it will cause ear fatigue and eventual hearing loss.

    This phenomenon is the reason that it's best to check levels by turning up the mix from 0dB to see which tracks come in before others. At normal listening volume, the perceived loudness of the tracks seems closer together so it's harder to tell what's actually louder. At a low volume level, your ear is more sensitive to volume change, therefore you can adjust the levels of your tracks more accurately.

    And to relate this back to headphones... If you have consumer or prosumer headphones, the manufacturer is trying to make the music sound as good as possible. They are aware of all this human ear info and they adjust the frequency response of their speakers accordingly. They also boost certain frequencies more to help the perceived loudness of frequencies that the speakers don't replicate as well. This is all true for consumer/prosumer speakers/monitors as well.

  5. #50
    productions :) Paze's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    Notice how the chart flattens out a 80dB? Good job. Guess what dB level you're supposed to check levels at... oh... wait for it...













    80dB!

    Ever heard 80dB? It's not very loud. You're probably mixing at about 95dB or higher which is about 5 times as loud.

    But word... follow your chart there and mix at 120dB genius.

    BTW... just for anyone that actually cares. sound isn't flatter at higher dBs. This chart is showing that the human ear hears frequencies more INTENSELY at higher volumes. Intensity is apparent loudness or perceived loudness. So the louder something is, your hears think it's that much louder. After the threshold of about 85dB your ears begin to over-emphasize the volume of the frequencies you're hearing. This gives you a false sense of track volume. The benefit to this phenomenon is that we hear sound in more detail at higher volumes. Therefore it's best to mix FX at volumes higher than 85dB to hear more precise detail. But you should never mix at above 96dB, because it will cause ear fatigue and eventual hearing loss.

    This phenomenon is the reason that it's best to check levels by turning up the mix from 0dB to see which tracks come in before others. At normal listening volume, the perceived loudness of the tracks seems closer together so it's harder to tell what's actually louder. At a low volume level, your ear is more sensitive to volume change, therefore you can adjust the levels of your tracks more accurately.

    And to relate this back to headphones... If you have consumer or prosumer headphones, the manufacturer is trying to make the music sound as good as possible. They are aware of all this human ear info and they adjust the frequency response of their speakers accordingly. They also boost certain frequencies more to help the perceived loudness of frequencies that the speakers don't replicate as well. This is all true for consumer/prosumer speakers/monitors as well.
    Exactly... other than thepart about me mixing at 120dB or w/e. I dont know anyone who possibly could
    But as I said - I mix at the level that consumers will listen to it out of my consumer monitors. And out of my Krks I mix at the level Im most comfortable with which doesnt vary a lot.

    But ears dont percieve frequencies that much louder above 85dB... aslong as it isnt much louder than 85dB. So Im guessing I mix at around 88-89dB (maybe a bit less) - or atleast when Im referencing on my headphones
    Last edited by Paze; November 12th, 2008 at 08:53 AM

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  6. #51
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Cain View Post
    if your headphones have a boosted low end, which is LOUDER than another headphone's low end... it doesnt mean your headphones are flatter.

    "flat" is a term used to describe the frequency of the whole spectrum of human hearing, not just a certain frequency level. As shown in the chart YOU posted. Your using the chart out of context.

    So with that said... if i owned headphones with a louder lo end, and a louder high end than another set... mine are not flatter... they are quite the opposite. They are "hyped"... or "colored"...

    which is pretty much the case for all things. Being as the only flat frequency response is either a continuous sine wave, or a silence.



    that's exactly what i thought it sounded like you were describing. They are hyped in the low end region.
    I use them to check if theres enough bass because none of my monitors produce sub-bass. Not many peoples systems produce sub bass unless its hyped like fuck - i.e. in a car or at a club. Im not excusing the headphones for being slighty boosted in the lows but I need them to produce it and accurately enough which they basically do. I dont see a slight boost as a massive downfall
    Ive always felt headphones more punchy than mid-fields because theyre hammering everything right in your ear so I sorta agree with that. Theyre a bit more punchy than the sonys and a lot more punchy than any shitty pair of consumer headphones.

    I like em... theyre reasonably flat (this doesnt matter though, does it pey and Kris) and from what I read - theyre better than the Sonys for an overall good headphone for referencing. Im glad I chose them over another pair of Sonys - even though my Sonys are falling apart lol. Theyre nice an rigged for taking on the road and I dont mind usng them as a reference on their own if I dont have a pair of monitors around

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  7. #52
    The Stew Opie M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by Paze View Post
    Exactly... other than thepart about me mixing at 120dB or w/e. I dont know anyone who possibly could
    But as I said - I mix at the level that consumers will listen to it out of my consumer monitors. And out of my Krks I mix at the level Im most comfortable with which doesnt vary a lot.

    But ears dont percieve frequencies that much louder above 85dB... aslong as it isnt much louder than 85dB. So Im guessing I mix at around 88-89dB (maybe a bit less) - or atleast when Im referencing on my headphones
    You have no idea what db you mix at. 89dB is almost twice as loud as 85dB. Every time you add 6dB you are making the signal twice as loud. It's a logarithmic scale.

    And you don't mix at the level you're comfortable with. You mix at several different specific levels depending on what task you're doing.

    regardless, if you were mixing at the proper level you wouldn't get ear fatigue in an hour. And don't act like you knew everything I just told you, when you just acted like I was crazy for saying that you're supposed to mix levels at low volumes.

    Stunt.

  8. #53
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    shiet i love rb
    microbandits.com - new track up daily


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    made by a good friend o' mine

  9. #54
    ESKWIRE
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by ...opey... View Post

    ...

    Stunt.
    Lmao Dead
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  10. #55
    productions :) Paze's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    You have no idea what db you mix at. 89dB is almost twice as loud as 85dB. Every time you add 6dB you are making the signal twice as loud. It's a logarithmic scale.

    And you don't mix at the level you're comfortable with. You mix at several different specific levels depending on what task you're doing.

    regardless, if you were mixing at the proper level you wouldn't get ear fatigue in an hour. And don't act like you knew everything I just told you, when you just acted like I was crazy for saying that you're supposed to mix levels at low volumes.

    Stunt.
    I know 6dB is twice as loud. A lot of people do :\
    My task is normally mixing rock or metal and I have the levels prepared of what I mix at... I mix it quite loud but not too loud. Defnetly not ear-bleeding loud. And when I go to shows I try to protect my ears after they got pretty fucked up from me gigging several douzens of times. I know what is too loud and I dont go near it
    I dont mix at low volumes unless I was doing background music or something pretty smooth and discreet because the consumer standard of listening isnt low and no listener is going to set everything up to 85dB to hear what the mix engineer heard.

    Through headphones as I said - if theres 35hz pumping through my ear for an hour of corrective EQing of the whole mix or of a lower bass string section then if my headphones are playing that back constantly Im going to want to take my headphones off every so often. Its not loud as hell but Ive felt this with other earphones too. More so on thse because they create the full low end - even the frequencies that are more of a feeling since I cant hear them

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  11. #56
    The Stew Opie M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    You have no idea how to mix properly. Period. Genre has nothing to do with how loud to monitor a mix. You don't mix at one volume EVER. Whatever, dude. Keep dishing out hack job mixes on your consumer gear and call yourself an engineer. You're laughable.

  12. #57
    Rap Is Alive Keeby Swaggz's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    these arguments are epic...


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  13. #58
    productions :) Paze's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    You have no idea how to mix properly. Period. Genre has nothing to do with how loud to monitor a mix. You don't mix at one volume EVER. Whatever, dude. Keep dishing out hack job mixes on your consumer gear and call yourself an engineer. You're laughable.
    You know Ive never claimed to be an engineer.
    Im a producer, I produce, I have engineers assist me in the studio because I dont know how to engineer, Im not particularly rich to buy all this high-end audio gear you claim to have, Im happy with what I do.
    Thats me summed up myself and my approach to engineering and what you expect me to know and have. Im doing my Pro Tools 210 in music production, not post production. I have no interest in being an engineer. I generally know how to do a rough mix to the extent that I can give it to a mastering engineer an he'll know what I want.
    I know this because Ive produced, Ive done rough mixes and Ive sat in a mastering suite with a mastering engineer. None of the shit I have at home matches up with the professional quality Ive used - but not many people's is. Thats why studios are very much still relevant today. You might not agree with that since you dont agree with anything I say - and especially since you think Ive ever called myself an engineer

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  14. #59
    The Stew Opie M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    All that said, yet you argue with engineers about engineering. That's the whole point. You never know what you're talking about yet you argue with people that know the shit they're saying like second nature. Every post you make is full of misinformation. I never believe anything you say because you say false shit about a craft that you know very little about. And when I make corrections you claim to have already known and move on to say more misinformed shit.

    I mean, you're supposedly getting your Pro Tools Certification, yet you don't even know the difference in the 2 certifications. You think that the Music Production certification is for what you consider production, which is actually music PRE-PRODUCTION. And you think the Audio Post Production certification is for what you consider music post production, which is actually music production. The difference in the 2 certifications is that MUSIC production is for MUSIC, and Audio Post Production is for FILM. Audio Post Production is what the film post production process is referred to by everyone in the entertainment industry. You can't even call yourself a producer and not know that information (but I'm sure you'll claim that you suddenly do know after you've already proven that you don't).

    That shit is the very first thing they teach you in the Pro Tools certification course. And every Pro Tools course curriculum is laid out by DigiDesign and taught by certified Pro Tools Experts (what they call their instructors), so you can't even pretend that your class is different. I've been thru the whole program. It didn't take anywhere near a year, let alone at least 2 like you claim. It doesn't even make sense that it would take more than several months, since Pro Tools certifications are for specific versions of the program. You don't get "Pro Tools Certified" you get "Pro Tools HD 7.4 Certified" or "Pro Tools HD 8 Certified" etc. If you're Pro Tools 6.9 certified, Digidesign doesn't even see you as a certified operator for Pro Tools 7. If the course lasted 2 years you would be learning several different versions of the program.

    Also, your mixes are no where near ready for the mastering process. I guarantee you're talking about the mixing process. You don't even know the difference between a record engineer, mix engineer, and mastering engineer. songs get mastered at a mastering house by a mastering engineer after they're recorded in a production studio by a record engineer and mixed by a mix engineer.

    So you're right. I don't believe the shit you say because it's BS. The biggest thing I don't believe is that someone could be such a clown act. I can go on and on about your BS. From claiming to be a producer yet having no clue about basic production shit to claiming to put in work with artists in "the second best studio in Scotland" and get sales for your phat beats yet you have hardly any money to invest in your own craft. The reason I can afford to put the proper amount of money into my trade is because I'm ACTUALLY semi-successful at what I do. You can actually take a lesson from what I do. I can school you for days about the trade that you think you know how to do. So I'll "claim" to have nice gear which people on this site has seen, and you can claim to be a producer, engineer, musician... whatever you want. The difference is that I'm actually an engineer and a producer where you just play one on the internet.

    You wonder why no one on this site actually worth working with fucks with you at all. Real people who are actually good at what they do can spot a pretender with ease. Real recognizes real and you don't look familiar to anybody here.

  15. #60
    We off That Kris Cain's Avatar
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    Re: Monitors & headset help

    well... damn....

    is that the tea pot i hear going off...
    I'll be back, i need to check my tea before it boils over.
    *walks backwards slowly out of thread*
    Welcome to reality.

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